Why does Gibson do this? (58 Flying V)
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2025
- I recently started looking at Gibson Flying V's and noticed that they are treated very differently when compared to most of Gibsons other guitars.
The Les Paul has variations at every price point, but the original 58 V shape starts at $5.5k!
I just don't get it.
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Korina is 20% cheaper than SA mahogany at my hardwood dealer, $12 a board foot vs $15 for mahogany. For reference Ebony is $150 a board foot, indian rosewood is $46, swamp ash is $18.50, Maple is $6, curly/birdseye/quilted maple is $25--$30 for the top grades, poplar is $4, and alder is $9
Even gibson has known this forever. The original 58 V's and Explorers were made out of African Limba wood given the trade name korina to make it sound exotic because it was a cheaper alternative to mahogany. Korina has been something of a scam for years in guitars.
Glad I like my guitars gloss black. Then you don't have to worry about stains/figures/complex tops. You can throw gloss black on alder/poplar/basswood and call it a day.
Need "tonewood?" Turn up the bass and low mids on your amp.
Any change the wood makes to the guitar's tone might be there when it is unplugged, but by the time it goes through the entire signal chain one is chasing diminishing returns.
@@TL-angzarr "The illusion of scarcity” bit is something that all big companies do now, and drives me nuts. Guitar factories are no exception. They'll release a guitar as a “limited run” or only sell a certain color at a certain vendor - whatever they can do to make you think there aren’t a lot of them. Steve Jobs was the king of this. He’d have Apple factories make less than he needed _on purpose_ to create scarcity and drive-up desirability. It worked.
@@AAAA-lt9hq Tone wood is one of the biggest lies of all time in the guitar world. Does it look nice? Yes. Does it feel nice? Sometimes. Does it sound better? No way. Some of the really heavy and dense wood feels nice in your hands, that’s about it.
"🤓the resonance! the sustain!”
🤣🤣🤣
@@bveracka Preach. :)
Looking for logic, reason and intelligence to Gibson’s brand culture and pricing is a fool’s errand.
If you want a prime example of predatory branding however, they’re your company.
and i love them 🤣
@@robertstan2349 I love their guitars but I HAAAAAAAAATE their corporate culture. Thankfully I’m happy with used ones.
They don’t want to be a guitar brand, they want to be a designer bag brand lmao. We have enough ‘lifestyle’ brands forcing their way into the music space, gets annoying af
They make the best guitars
"predatory branding" LOLOL do you check under your bed for the boogeyman before wetting it?
They went from making guitars to making wall ornaments for doctors and lawyers.
I wonder how many of them get played versus the ones that just sit behind glass or in a case…hmm. Prices right now are in a perfect storm situation; everything’s making them expensive. Their flagship LP Standard should be about $1500, not $3000. In 2017 they were $1399 🫤
Which begs the question why anybody but several thousand collectors across the world should even care. There are at least like 20 brands that can sell you a much better specced guitar of no worse quality than Gibson for less money. And no matter how subjective "good looking" might be, other makers make amazingly beautiful guitars too.
@@KinslayerOfDoom I'm honestly not heckling you, I'm genuinely curious. What are a few of these brands with "amazingly beautiful" guitars "of no worse quality" and cheaper than the average Gibson?
Again, I'm truly not busting your balls.
While it's certainly true that many small guitar brands make amazing stuff - Collings, Heatley, Grosh, Huber, etc. - they're also just as expensive (if not more) than a Gibson.
Many big companies make their own awesome designs, are always available, and cheap, but many are made in Chinese and Indonesian sweatshops with awful QC, _and_ they're overpriced.
@@bveracka The pay at the gibson factory is shit lmao. This is common knowledge.
@@bveracka the beauty is in yhe eye of beholder, so what I wrote ans what I'm writing now is purely subjective. Indeed, if you narrow your definition of beautiful guitar to "retro looking single cut with nitrocellulose finish you can't even burp beer onto", and continue narrowing it further, you will indeed end up with Gibson and a few small shops. And if you narrow it down even more you will conclude that only a genuine Gibson will do.
This, however, wasn't what I was talking about. My range of guitars I find good looking is much broader and since I'm a metalhead, my tastes are skewed towards more aggressive designs. Threrefore, there are lots of mainstream manufacturers whose products I like.
They aren't being bought to be played.. they're being bought to be sold.
Gollum's Precious.
I was about to leave the exact same comment but you beat me to it! ;-)
I think that a lot of people who have money buy expensive guitars, not to play them but as an investment and Gibson gladly makes and sells them these guitars.
Just like people who have no choice but to move out because the neighbourhood where they grew up is now full of luxurious apartments and they can't afford to live there anymore, guitar players have to change and use different guitars because they can't afford the Gibsons they love.
I play mine
That makes no sense.
They don’t sell for more than they cost to buy. Which makes your idea nonsensical.
Rickenbacker perpetuates an artificial shortage as well, but theirs is kind of different. Their finishing process gives off toxic fumes (I suppose worse than most) and California told them that they either had to change their process or make fewer per year to comply with regulations. They choose fewer.
And the finish peels off the binding because they changed the recipe. Flakes right off the bindings. And it's thick finish so it's very noticable.
Not a Gibson guy at all but they really struck gold with the Explorer shape. The design looks so nicely balanced aesthetically
I love my Explorers. I have 2 Gibsons (2019 B-2 Tribute and an '86 with a factory Kahler), 4 Dean Zs, and a Kiesel Hyperdrive. They look awesome and they feel amazing.
to be fair Gibson know their customer base. It's Boomers, the single most affluent historical generation, know hitting retirement and having THE most expandable cash on hands of any generation ever. Those are their heros guitars, they are their dream guitars and they DO have this kind of dow and do treat them as non-depreciating assets instead of instruments being used and abused in rehearsal spaces and on stages, kicked over and splattered in beer. I'd even go so far as to say: it might be the most rational buisness choice for them, given how they struggled for years pre bancrupcy to carve out a niche in the 1000-ish space with made in USA guitars. We all know how that went: quite a few duds left factory, PCB electronics, all that.
I was fortunate enough to get a pre-bancrupcy SG special with 70s tribute specs (they once called them 70s tribute, so with Mini HB and small block inlays, satin finish, slim taper necks) when demand for those Gibsons was at it's bottom in 2019 for 450 bucks, nearly brand new with the sticky foil still attached. With a bit of work its a great guitar, but they seem to have been absolute failures buisnesswise.
@@ithemba Boomer guitarists are also the easiest to sell snake oil, too.
@@ithembaglad my hero was buddy holly 😅 I’m happy with a good Mexican fender … USA ones are silly priced here 😅
@Kylora2112 lol how so? myself I'm 60 and own a Les Paul but I've played over 45 years and I know a good guitar from a shite guitar, and honestly I don't care for Gibson electrics so I bought an ESP Edwards John Sykes model which wasn't supposed to be imported into the States as it's an exact copy of a 70's LP Custom sans the pancake body of course, this guitar stomps all over any Gibson I've ever owned or played.
PS Folks, Korina is neither RARE or EXPENSIVE. It's abundant and CHEAP. Gibson charges those prices because people pay them
Yup. Kiesel charges $100 for upgrading from alder to swamp ash, mahogany, or black limba (aka: korina) on their builder, and that's just because they charge extra for most non-standard choices.
The real name is LIMBA... and it sounds exactly like the best Honduras mahogany... BTW, the white limba used by Gibson doesn't looks awesome... Take a look at the black limba, you don't want your guitar to be either painted or even covered with a coloured varnish!
The biggest cost difference between korina and Mahogany is that the sawdust is toxic and cause skin irritation. That's the really only difference for labor
@@Haroun-El-Poussah yes, we wood nerds know, but regular folk will have no clue if I called a korina guitar limba
@@Kylora2112
Yes there's always the "tone wood" upcharge, but much of the pricing is down to availability, stability and workability.
For instance: African ebony is expensive because it's not easily harvested, only the heartwood is brown to black, it shrinks like crazy and is prone to cracks when drying, it's very dense and heavy (shipping costs).
On top of all that it blunts tooling and is potentially brittle due to its hardness, it's dust is thought to be potentially carcinogenic and it often contains mineral deposits that not only looks like someone gets off on tropical hardwood will wreck tools even faster than the dense wood.
Alder is cheap, light, doesn't tend to split, is easy on tools, and has a smooth tight grain which doesn't require filling and will generally accept dyes and finishes without any faffing about.
Swamp ash isn't so common and tends towards porosity, meaning it will soak up finishes without some sort of sealing.
Mahogany type woods have to be imported, vary quite a lot in density and hardness, with some pieces being prone to router tear out, and generally requires the grain filling and sanding before a finish is applied.
Then just to make things awkward, a business may have to ensure they can trace where their wood was originally sourced from if customs agents/EPA come a knocking if they are using tropical hardwoods due to CITES and illegal logging.
Ditto if the instruments are exported as customs requirements for areas such as the EU and Australia can be pretty strict - Australia especially so.
It all adds costs, which has to be passed into the consumer.
Always thought it was funny how Gibson promotes korina as some mystical wood that has to saved for only the most exclusive models while Reverend uses korina on production guitars and it’s rare that something is made out of a different wood
Can you give an example of where Gibson is actually "promoting Korina as a mystical wood..." ?
That's the thing, it isn't a rare/expensive material. It's pretty abundant and affordable, especially compared to other exotic species.
"Korina" is a marketing term invented by Gibson. In reality it's an African species called limba/afara (terminalia superba). There's another closely related species called idigbo (terminalia ivorensis) which is more widely used in window frames, indoor joinery/furniture, etc, but is used by some instrument makers. I don't know if Gibson's "korina" might also include idigbo? The two species are similar enough that it wouldn't really come as a surprise (or be worth worrying about).
Yup. The only issue with Limba (aka Gibson Korina) is that the dust is nasty. It can cause nose and gum bleeding for some folks, and while not as splintery as Wenge, the splinters are likely to get infected and go septic similar to Wenge. Of course I have a bass I built with a Wenge neck and limba body. Most woods don't bother me while working with them..
@@russellguitarworks No, it's just that it's associated with a specific model of guitar that is rare. It's not the wood as such. It's the fact that a specific configuration of a specific model of guitar is available in Korina. Because it's the only way to get something like the original. Which is what is actually rare. They have had plenty of other Korina guitars over the years.
Korina wood sawdust is toxic so its got that toxik tone that Gibson players love
I wanted a V since high school, and I prefer the 58 style. Not having the cash for the Gibson, I bought a used early 2000s epiphone Korina 58. Stripped every part off until it was a bare husk, and decked it out with all my favorite high end parts. This is not the most common route to take, but I believe it plays better than a stock run of the mill Gibson V, as my obsession with modding would have still happened if I had a Gibson like that black 67.
those korina epis are fantastic, I'd never change it for an overpriced gibson
The investment banker that runs Gibson is an Investment Banker first, Guitar player 69th.
@@roaringsteelmedia
Except that Harley sales are in decline.
nice
Yeah, he's using his and Gibson's money to be able to hang out with his heroes and they'll shill for Gibson.
Private equity ruins everything. I work in investment and retirement finance and can very clearly see that. I play Epiphones BTW because I don't see a guitar as an investment. Maybe just an investment in myself and playing. Guitar flipping is stupid.
@@brostoevsky22 I hear you. I've yet to encounter a private equity acquisition that benefits the company long term and results in employees being paid more etc.
Completely agree. Fellow guitar nerd here. I’m an Explorer guy. I have a black 2006 Explorer (‘76 reissue) that I found hanging on the wall at my local guitar shop for $699.00 that someone had brought in on consignment (this was in late 2013). It needed a little work but it’s a great guitar. If I were in the market for a V, I think I’d want a ‘67-style body with ‘58-style hardware (string-thru, pickguard, controls, etc.). I don’t think they make one like that. The only other Gibson I own is a 2004 Les Paul Studio that I got off of Reverb in 2018 for $850.00. Gibson didn’t benefit financially from either of those sales. I think the reason why the $20,000-30,000 guitars sell out is because there are a lot of doctors and lawyers out there buying them up. I once had a dentist who was also a guitar player. He told me that the reason he decided to become a dentist is so he could earn enough income to be able to get married, raise a family, put his kids through college and still have enough money left over to indulge all of his guitar fantasies.
Dear KDH I have a suggestion for a video series idea. There are many youtubers who act like they are doing a guitar review/test but actually they are just doing a payed promotion video of that product. They are basically misleading people who watch them. Because they are not honest, although they are paid to promote the product they are acting like they are making honest review as if they were incredibly impressed by the product. Maybe you can expose them or.. you can make a video of ‘How to understand which youtube reviewer is honest and which one is paid to promote’?
They didn't have to sweat for it. It's just a decoration on the wall of freebees. When you gotta save and sacrifice, and really want something, it is different.
The opposite can be true also. If you spend your hard earned money on something you can convince yourself its great when it might just be average.
I never view those as reviews unless it's explicitly stated. They are product demos and I always watch them as such.
**They're all paid to promote.** All you have to do is go through their videos to see if they have any negative reviews. If they don't, it's because they want to protect their "brand" (the youtube "bu$ine$$"). What company wants to engage with them if they think there's a possibility they'll get a bad review? They're sending out "free" gear or paying for the promotion - they're paying for marketing and advertising, they're looking for a financial return on that investment. RUclipsrs will go so far as not even doing a review if they can't make a positive video on it - this goes back to protecting their brand because what company wants to pay for a negative review?
If someone is paying for gear out of their own pocket exactly like any customer would, those are the ones you might consider to be honest because there's no financial incentive in the review process. Also pay attention to how long they keep the gear. If you never see it or hear about it again on their channel, they possibly just bought it to review it and return it (trying to build their "brand" up). If they're still playing it a year later, they probably genuinely like it.
None of this is really rocket science.
Some people get the product and get paid a fee as well.
the V is my favorite for weird shapes. I have an 81 Gibson V I inherited from my uncle when he died. When he was alive I begged just to borrow it and he never would. Well, its mine now and its absolutely perfect imo. I had the tech at Guitar Center (at the time I worked there) take a look at it and he gave it a setup just cuz he thought it was so cool.
It's like the way De Beers controls the diamond market by only releasing a fraction of a fraction of their stock - keeping supply low, so the demand (and subsequent price) elevated.
I've always much preferred the '67 reissue layout to the '58 version, personally.
Even if I were to use the '58 body shape with the shoulders in a home build, I'd still use the '67 control plate - or something similar.
Remember that what Gibson calls korina wood is also called black limba wood. That's another reason people think the wood is rare.
Most korina guitars you see are more of a white limba, but yes black is used frequently as well.
@@shelbyavant5081 black limba and white limba are the same wood. just from different parts of the trunk. black limba is generally the wastage from the more desirable white.
Seriously? I have a black limba guitar and it looks nothing like any korina instrument I've ever seen.
Keisel has black limba options on the guitar builder on their site, and pictures too will give you a good understanding of what the wood looks like. As pointed out earlier, white limba variants exist too.
@@allenmitchell09 ahh I did some googling. All of them are limba/ afara, but korina is exclusively white limba, not black limba.
I prefer the '67 shape over the '58
I'm totally an Explorer guy but since Gibson made sure there's no Explorer on the market which fits my desire i'm rarely playing one and i'm certainly not buying a Gibson.
I bought a 67 reissue V in '91 by mail order, on my parents' credit card because I was in high school. It was 475USD. Only a few years later, they'd doubled in price. To this day it's my favorite guitar for weight, feel, playability, and sound, and the only thing I'd change is having the '58's neck joint.
Welcome to the Flying V Lovers Club. ❤
Crazy considering how many versions of the 58 style V they make for Epiphone.
Pretty detailed quick comparison there, haven't seen anybody go over this, KDH, awesome as always!
So, I ordered a kit guitar of the '58 V in left handed, I was sent a right handed version, and couldn't get a response from the company for a return. I ended up giving it to my brother in law. The kit company was Pango.
I guess you could've gone the "Authentic Hendrix" route and strung it up as a lefty... (jk)
@@mr_bassman6685 it crossed my mind
I have an 80's Jaydee 58 replica Flying V. Absolutely great guitars and the V design is actually fabulous to play. Should be more top notch Vee's out there.
KDH, i know it may feel a little odd to you from the captain’s seat. But I actually think it’s cool when you do videos like this. your work as a whistleblower/investigative video journalist is super impressive. but your audience may enjoy these types of videos more than you think. I learned a lot in this video and it’s BECAUSE your investigative journalism is so good that I accepted all of it with little hesitation. You’ve built trust with your audience and that gives your informational videos more weight. Regarding Gibson, you proved the sales of super high end, small batch runs, aren’t negatively affected by selling a parallel standard model. 100% true 😅, but it’s also usually not good for a retail company to have everything available to every customer at every tier level…it’s good for us as customers lol. But Gibson isn’t FMIC. And even without the Les Paul, Gibson would be fine just making Archtops. millennials don’t realize this, but that’s what Gibson’s specialty is, jazz. The LP is a jazz guitar…Would they shrink in market value if they stopped making solid bodies, obviously. But they wouldn’t go out of business. The reason i say this; they’d rather stay closer to that Legacy & Branding then try to capture more of the pop/rock/punk market beyond what they already have. aka serious guitars for young players with little money, like you said. but Fender captures most of that market and when you’re running a huge company, pumping your brand full of elitism is usually better than watering it down. KDH, all I’m saying is: they purposefully don’t want a standard model at that price point. Certain models they want to keep desirable and rare regardless of sales. 🙏
You should look up for Edwards (ESP) flying v’s and explorers. High quality,made only for the japanese market, and reasonably priced + seymour duncan pickups from the factory!
You’re like the only guy doing this kind of content and you do a good job. Easily the best gear you tuber
I picked up a 58' Korina Epi V 3 years ago for $600 - very nice very cool
If it wasn’t for Dean, Hamer, and Ibanez making their own Vs and explorers in the 70s these shapes wouldn’t be has popular today.
The Dean V and Z from the 79 series out of Korea are fantastic guitars, though the used prices on the Zs have increased a good amount since the lawsuit. But still less than the Epi and much higher quality, IMO.
Add Jackson, ESP, and BC Rich to that as well (the Mockingbird and Ironbird are probably the closest they have to Explorer shapes). James Hetfield's black ESP Explorer circa 1991 sold a lot of ESPs and made the Explorer shape popular for a whole new generation of players.
Always loved the V. Just sold my vintage Lado, had it for 40 years . It was the '58 traditional shape . Got great money for it .
if interested, another one worth checking out is the DBZ or Dean Brian Zelinsky ..CAVALLO AB . Its a modern take on the traditional V with a much slimmer body with comfort cuts and some rounding . Much nicer to play . Great sound and sustain for days . They came out about 10 years ago . But you can still find a few NEW old stock ones and of course used ones out there . Early models were made in Korea , the company later changed to Diamond guitars and quality began to suffer .
Good call...I have 2 Korean Deans from the late 90s and early 00s....one of them is a Flying V...killer guitars from that era
@@darklight4815 Thanks . Yeah my hunt for a great Dean V always ended badly so this Cavallo filled two needs . And it's got a crazy headstock on it too / LOL
I’d like epiphone to release a 67 Flying V for about £600 in black and white options. They would sell better that the 58 and Kirk Hammett!
The epiphone stuff is really good now. Really like the 58 v shape. I got the epiphone moderne, love it
I have two Epiphone V's, and I love them both. They're great guitars, and they don't carry a price tag that makes me afraid of touching them. I'm also a big fan of "mod platforms" to further personalize guitars. Much easier to justify with an Epi rather than an "authentic"...
It's so ridiculous that they say they're making a '58 or '59 anything. If they're made now, they're 2024 models. And they act as if there was a strict template adhered to back then. 🙄
lol exactly not to mention it's kinda known the year designation based on materials is due to what they had at the time. I doubt the 2024 models have pickups wounds the same way as 58s back them, not to mention the circuit boards
When i traded my Korean Dave Mustaine Angel of Deth lefty V for a Les Paul, it was the culmination of 45 years wanting to own a vaunted Gibson LP. This one was in great shape, sported Slash pickups, and was well cared for. When i got it, however, i realized don’t meet your heroes. Hated slash pickups, so i swapped them out for Duncan PHAT CAT P-90’s, which fit seamlessly into humbucker holes. I enjoyed i a little more, but it still didn’t really do it for me.
Then i found a 300.00 Hondo 737 lawsuit LP copy. It was very close to the 1980 hondo LP which was my first electric. I love that plywood monster. Then i realized what it was; the Gibson i now owned has a 50’s neck, the Hondo a 60’s shape. Everything made sense. I was fighting with that Gibson, and it just didn’t feel good in my hands.
So, I’ve now relegated it to the wall, only tracking with it, if i need a p-90 tone in a recording.
I’ve come to the conclusion i will always be a fender and Schecter player, with my lefty hardtail strat and my devil custom being really, the only two guitars I’ll ever need.
I love that you found a diamond, and it’s working very well for you; I’m a little jealous!
Cheers from the new world
I grew up in, and am still, in a very rural area. I cant get my hands on a lot of guitars. A few years back I wanted an EVH wolfgang, Eddie being the great he was and is, I thought it would be cool. Finally made it to a guitar center down in the south of the state and played one...I hated it. Played many guitars, and blind testing always came back to a simple Fender strat.
But...I do love Les Paul's. I was able to fulfill my lifelong desire and bought a 2019 Tobacco burst, used of course. It's so darn heavy!!! Physically and sonically. I wouldnt have it any other way. There is magic in that guitar, I love the 50's neck. Hate the Gibson pickups, easy swap.
So Im loving that guitar, I jave to stop treating it with so much respect and reverence and squeeze the tunes out of it, violently of course.
I understand people viewing GIBSon as pompous and out of touch, but I love the guitars they have brought to us.
@@saltpeter7429 not a fan of the Wolfgang? I’m surprised- i love my 2018 standard. But, truth to tell, i only use it on 80’s hair metal stuff. I do a lot of stock music, and write 1-2 minute tracks for sale. Usually, every genre i can wring out of my head. And the Wolfgang does great on the Def Leppard/ Motley Crue style stuff. If you prefer the 50’s Gibson necks, I’d imagine the EVH necks are a little flat for you. Apparently, the Wolfgang neck carve is very close to the Frankenstein neck. Which, if I’m not mistaken, Ed shaped himself, beginning with a Charvel second stock neck
My Strat is a 2021 mod shop hardtail left handed HSS. Igor the noiseless, so when i record, I’d get less hum. For some reason, the noiseless humbucker is lifeless as hell. So i took it to RS guitar works, in Winchester, Kentucky, and had them install their Shredder Alnico 5 humbucker, and dude, that thing sings…..
I have a new song releasing- hopefully next week- where i use that guitar and pickup, and it turned out very cool!
I just bought a 67 reissue Epiphone Flying V, after setting it up and swapping out the bridge pickup it sounds and feels pretty good.
Future Breaking News Headline:
Famed guitar manufacturer, Gibson, discovers that their own factory is making copies of an iconic design from 1958 and files a lawsuit against themselves.
I bought both new Epiphone korina models. They are great guitars. Gibson electronics,super comfy when standing. The explorer sits just right.
I'm a fretless jazz bass man, but ever since I found out that Gibson used to make flying V basses I've been wanting to try one.
You could consider a Dunable Asteroid bass perhaps...?
I completely believe that it's all about maintaining desirability, scarcity and therefore price.
I blame Bonamassa
In line with "give us the shape" I wish they'd make more RDs too..
Have you ever played an RD? I owned one for a decade or so. There are numerous reasons that they are not highly sought after. For a similar shape that is comfortable and actually pleasant to play, you might track down an Andreas/Infeld Shark.
Love the Gibson Flying V Pro. Think it was a one year only (maybe '16?). Slightly smaller body, not really noticeable unless it's next to a standard V, but it's light. Push-pull pots. Bound top and fretboard. They're a unique, not well known option in the V family.
….. and you can get one without selling your house.
@@telecatsermaster Absolutely.
Till troglys does an episode lol. I was trying to explain that to my little cousin the other day how these influencers (it's in the name) have completely wrecked several things I care about. Comics, guitar gear and old electronics all good examples.
@@joeydurant6267 Honestly, I had the exact same thought.
I had gotten one off reverb a few years ago for a super good price. I loved everything about it. But sold it cuz i needed the money and and I regret it so much
I used to lust after a Gibson (of any design) when I first started playing but after trying a few I realised Gibson are a sub-standard guitar builder with world class marketing. I'm willing to bet another guitar company (maybe Dean?) will do a guitar that's the same spec as a 58 Gibson V for a fraction of the price.
I think your opinion is absolutely 💯 correct! I too, also need a 58 style Korina V that is an affordable Gibson! Listen KDH Gibson!!!
Your the best in the bizz , love your show, context. Keep up the good work ❤❤❤
To put the prices in context: I bought the most expensive PRS SE guitar and it was about 1500 new (1200 for me a year later) for a full hollowbody with flame maple front and back, flame maple binding on the body, neck, and f-holes, abalone bird inlays, a piezo bridge, and a flawless setup. Absolutely blows my mind that people would pay more than that for an Epiphone LP. For that money it has to be an absolutely stellar quality instrument or it's not worth it.
Well done on the video. I have a string through squier paranormal Nashville Strat. But I’m really an SG type of guy. The string through design is an eye catcher to me. I think I’d like playing a v but I feel as though the two guitars I have is good enough for now. Definitely fun learning about this through your video! I agree with your analysis on their business practices. I wish they’d spend more time improving the quality control dept more than anything
As always really great points, i enjoy the content
The thing about these high end collector's editions, the customer market for them will literally die out in the next 10-15 years. I guess I can't blame them for getting the money while they can. But they are not nurturing a market for the future. They are keeping a market on life support.
I’ve been saying this for years. I worked in a music store back in 2005 , and we were selling a 67’ reissue, and I was saying, why doesn’t Gibson USA release a production model 58 Flying V. Later, when Gibson was struggling and going into bankruptcy, I was like, release a production model 58 Flying V. Let the collectors additions come out for the collectors, and make a $2000 model that is available for the poor people who play guitar like myself.
First, thank you. Thank you for explaining the differences between the V shape, rather why they’re different. I’ve always wondered why there were two different V’s. Second, I will say legitimately the only Gibson I care to own is a Flying V (the ‘67 shape, I’m personally not a fan of the ‘58). Maybe an Explorer but I’m a V guy through and through. Despite not personally liking the ‘58, I agree that it’s a market that Gibson can cater to without impacting their collector’s market. Plain and simple in my eyes, if you have the money to blow 20k on a guitar, you’re going to do it even if there’s a more affordable option. The mindset in that tax bracket is different than the average player. The average player is fine with something that looks the part, feels good, and sounds good. The collector wants a show piece that is either eye candy, and/or is authentic as authentic gets. Again, if they have the means to spend the money they will.
Heres my solution to the issue of basically every video on this channel. I bought an ibanez rg j.custom, 7 string with tremolo. Can do anything and everything i want, built great, feels great. Dont need another guitar. One and done.
Thank you for calling it an output jack. It just irritates me when people call it an input jack. . I watched a video of Grady who is Dimebag's guitar tech and he called it an input jack. . Common sense should tell people that the sound is output from the guitar and input into the amp.
I hear you. It irritates me when people say a pedal has top jacks when they're actually on the back.
V guy here ! Unfortunately I’m poor so all of my purchases are not over $500 . So I went for the next affordable thing and that’s a used Jackson king V and with a lot of work this mother glides and never gos out of tune , plus I replaced the beat up Floyd Rose licensed trem with a GOTOH and it’s awesome 😎 I love my V ❤❤❤ would love a Gibson as well but that’s out of this family man’s budget but very happy with what I got 😊
Regarding the “scarcity” of Korina, in Rhett Shull’s Songbirds Museum tour video from early 2020, a guide stated while observing original 1958 Explorers and Flying Vs that Korina is carcinogenic and the factory workers at Gibson were getting sick from it in the manufacturing process. This may have something to do with Gibson not wanting to use Korina too often, but if one factor in halting the production of Korina guitars was for worker’s safety, why do they occasionally resume those runs? Perhaps in the past 66 years Gibson has provided their employees with better PPE while handling that wood. It’s just a theory, and the safety issue may be what drives up the price and scarcity of Korina use.
IMO they got it completely right in 58... The string thru, big shoulders and raised logo.. All perfect. I have a 67 reissue too which I love but something about the 58 just has the edge for me.. Glad you're enjoying the new black V
1:44 I had no idea explorers were ever made with the reverse V headstock!
There was a third one in 1958 called Futura. Also a reverse v headstock, but asymmetrical as well!
Without having sales figures for those expensive collectors models, it's hard to say if they sold out because they're desirable or because the stock available was only 2 or 3 guitars.
I have a feeling that the 58 Gibson V is a niche market. They have the $10 grand one for those who really want it with the Gibson name, and they sell the $1000 Epiphone for those who just want the shape with a player's guitar. They may not sell enough of a production model to justify the production of it. That would be my guess.
Dude. Why not just buy a fekking Solar V ?
Jeez louise and they’ve got their summer sale on now too
Much better bang for your buck. I’ve 5 Solars. All 1.6. All awesome. Two GC1.6, E1.6, S1.6 and A1.6.
I play blues. Never heard of Ola Englund when i bought my first one.
Cheers from NZ 😎🎸🤘
Gibson released a "Faded V" in 2003 for $999 (equal to $1600 in today). 70s styling, very basic stained finish that came in red or black. The red ones were collecting dust at every Gibson dealer I visited between 2004 and 2006.
When they DO re-release a standard ‘58 V they should call it the KDH…. they’re probably playing this video in meetings at the HQ… great insight!
I have several high end Gibson’s including a Jimmy Page EDS 1275 and the 2012 Tony Iommi SG, which by the way has become my go to guitar, I really don’t care about brand name but there is something iconic about the 58 V, I bought the Epiphone version and I was surprised how many people don’t even realize the name on the headstock, they always want to come talk to me and see it up close and that’s when they see the brand, it’s opened a lot of people eyes to what epiphone has been making these days, as far as the guitar it plays brilliantly, my only complaint is the burstbucker bridge pickup because I play with a lot of gain, it will soon be replaced with a ceramic pickup, probably a duncan mayhem
I personally love my Gibson guitars so it's pretty funny to see you starting to like them. Gibson are amazing at figuring out how to make a price of entry really high for some features considering they make a large number of standard production models. It's actually kind of impressive. Fortunately some of the artist signature models are helping. The Gibson Moderne is one that bothers me. I literally don't think it has been possible to get the thing with the Gumbi headstock since the 80's. You might wonder why on earth someone would even want that, but the couple I played were AMAZING.
Why can’t they just release another 74 explorer.
Seriously, their most famous explorer was the model hetfield cut his teeth on and they’ve never rereleased the 74 other than one limited run of like 1000 guitars and an epiphone.
I had the exact same model 90s 67 reissue as you new (minus poker chip) till I sold it about a decade ago. Missing having a V, I a few months back bought one of the 58 Korina Epiphones which is a great guitar and I love it except having that Epiphone badge on the headstock bugs me and it bugs me that it bugs me but it does 🥴 (and the case is shoite).
I played one for the first time a few weeks. And dear fucking god! My picking hand on that thing is like a machine! I actually had to force myself to play slower because my fretting hand couldn't keep up. And I was only playing riffs I always play at home.
It just felt that good!
But $3k.... 😅
I care about how the Guitar feels when i play, I ended up getting a Epiphone Flying V as names don't worry me, and I love it, not to mention the savings on a Gibson which i equate as a lot more dollars for not much more. I know a lot of the Gibson Flying V's come with a case, i had to add in extra for mine, still came in way cheaper.
I just did a podcast on the Tweed Couch with a buddy called "Issues with Reissues" (comes out on the 29th) and the 2 biggest issues we had were the price and the accuracy. I used Korina as my example. He used the example with Marshall Amplifiers.
The strap placement on the '58 is what would put me off before I even look at the price. It was originally designed to be played in a horizontal position where you put your right hand through the centre of the V behind the bridge, if I remember correctly. If you look at my profile picture on the left, I like to play a high headstock position, kind of like a classical position, and the Les Paul, '58 Explorer and '58 Flying V are all horizontal, neck heavy looking designs. The price would put me off all Gibsons. It's not worth it for a hobby player who got a brand new Jackson Randy Rhoads with a Floyd Rose on Thomann for a fraction of the price, even if I had the life changing money price of a Gibson.
I was on a quest for a Flying V back in 2021. I had my sights set on one of the new Gibson 70s-style Vs (with the white headstock). I wanted to see if any of my local shops had any in stock, and as I was searching I came across a 2019 Dean USA V in the natural mahogany finish. The Dean was spec’d like a 58 Gibson V with a few alterations, and I ended up buying it for $1900. The closest Gibson variant would have been that Custom Shop mahogany one that retailed for $5k.
Then of course the lawsuit thing happened and Dean had to stop making their Vs. It sounds like that’s getting appealed, so with any luck Dean will be able to bring back the more reasonably priced 58-style Vs that Gibson refuses to make.
Cool rant! Make more of these KDH! "Sunday Rants" could fill in for half of the restring sundays.
As someone who started playing in the mid 00's and saw all my heros play gibson guitars (Therion, Iced Earth, Metallica... ect) while only being able to afford an epiphone LP standard with all my money from cutting grass ... UNOBTANIUM. But as I crept into my mid 20s & later 30s the old dream of owning one started to become an achievable thing yet ironically I don't. I can't fathom buying one for the fact that I can get a great playing guitar for way less money than a gibson. Still, if I found the right one, I'd get it.
Really love that this video was largely a "vehicle" for a young Irish lad to have a rant about daft shit going on with the guitar world... and I hasten to add that I'm totally on board for it too...
I have been fortunate enough to own a 71 V and a 76 Explorer. I sold both and... wait for it... kept my Hondo Revival 2 Explorer as it was a better instrument.
Even now, I have a USA built Jackson Randy Rhoads, a BC Rich Warlock (early model), a Japanese Jackson Dinky EX and a Gretsch... I always grab the old Hondo.
My advice to anyone wanting pointy guitars is either;
Play every pointy guitar no matter what brand it is and pick what you like best,
Or;
Find a reputable small time Luthier/builder who specialises in V's or Explorers and engage their services. I'm a Luthier myself and some of the builds I see are gorgeous.
The way I see it is the only real, somewhat affordable Gibson guitar you can get that matches up (nearly perfectly) with it's 50s counterpart is the Les Paul Special. The last time I looked at them they were $1799. That's the one I want. If I hit the lottery, I might go for a Murphy Lab Goldtop, but in my current situation the Special is going to be a difficult acquisition. Another thing that makes my situation tricky is I really like those limited edition Olive Drab specials they came out with a few years ago as Green is my favorite color, but I'll settle for a Yellow one otherwise.
Flying v truly is a dream guitar for me. Been wanting one for years. Maybe some day...
After getting a new Gibson with a really crappy finish, I got over not liking Epiphones and switched to them exclusively. I’ve got an olive drab 58 shaped V that is mahogany and has PAF humbuckers. I was going to change those, but they’re a dream. It did need some fret ends filed. It otherwise it’s been my favorite guitar I’ve ever owned. It was $700. I bought it to clunk around with. It’s exceeded my expectations in every way.
This. I really love the look of the '50s style flying V, especially a black one with a white pickguard, but Gibson doesn't make anything like that below the $10,000 mark. There's clear demand for them that Gibson doesn't try to sate at all. Heck, they don't even sell normal Vs in custom colours like Les Pauls and SGs even though they'd sell like hotcakes. Funnily enough, Epiphone does sell 50s style Vs, and in colours other than natural.
YES! Someone finally said it! I'm tempted to find a not so great Epiphone Korina V (more for the very low weight than anything) just to refinish it in the style of my choosing, the Epiphone is literally the only offering for sensible money. I'm very much a fan of the 58 and not exactly one of the 67 (pickguard shape just isn't for me and I want the V tailpiece).
Another model I wish they'd make is a Batwing SG with Vibrola, not just a hardtail, luckily original ones can be had for Custom Shop money anyway, but the 58 V is the really perplexing one
The only "Standard" for Gibson's models, is that it has been historically "standard" to change them every year.
At a certain point, people just look at boutique brands. I bought a Momose 335 that was the same price as a baseline Gibson, but the Momose was a one of a kind crazy beautiful guitar that turns heads anytime I take it out and sounds better than any custom shop. A Gibson equivalent would cost around $10k, no doubt. They make korina explorers from time to time for around $2k, I’ve debated on getting one because I don’t care about brand name with that model.
But I get it, sometimes you just want the name on the headstock. I’m guilty of it too, when I bought my Les Paul, there were tons of great brands, but I wanted Gibson for that specific model
I bought a '99 Epiphone Flying V (58 Korina) in 2001 for $800 CND, brand new. It's made in Korea, has the '58 shape, and Korina/White Limba wood. It even said Gibson on the bell shaped truss rod cover. As well as Epiphone. So I got both branding!
It's aged now. 25 years old. I had my Luthier have a look at it and it looks and plays great still. I also also replaced the pickups with DiMarzio UtoPIA gold & black pickups (add $400 CND to what I paid), which look and sound great! I also replaced every single screw on the guitar with gold ones. Not sure why they don't just do that in the factory. Looks better, costs them an extra $1-3 to do.
Anyways... The classic Flying V exists, for cheap. Just, not with the Gibson logo it seems. But who cares what it says on the headstock? As long as it looks, plays, and sounds great.
The 67 didn't have M-69 pickup rings. The humbuckers were mounted to the pick guard. The pickup rings didn't appear until 1982
Makes a lot of sense, I love a good V and you are right a V Standard would really sell. The Bonamassa Epiphone Vs are a crazy price as you noted, I nearly bought one 18 months ago, but didn't want to pay the £900 asking price at the time!
Good video. I'm guessing that the 58 might be harder to manufacture? I don't know though. I loved the 80s they made in all the wild colors and some had kahyler trems. They were killer. I lived in Fl in 1984 and just about purchased a new Gibson V for like 800 dollars which would be like 2 grand now I would bet.
Great video. I think if I were to buy a new or even a used V it would be the 70s Dean reissue. ❤
Good stuff. ❤
Marketing-wise it's hard to think of anything that Gibson haven't done wrong at one time or another.
Right on man, I like the Explorer over the V, but you are on point.
To me, the late '60s design is far more iconic than the original. When I think of a Gibson Flying V, I immediately picture the Schenker brothers and the latter design is the one that they made iconic.
When the new owners took over, they deleted their entire "ARTISTS" section of their website. Gibson sells headstock logos for doctors and lawyers who can't tell a good guitar from a coffee table.
Interesting! I always wanted a V, but never got one, I have watched quite a few shootouts of Gibson and Epiphone and to me, old guy, owned many vintage guitars, Epiphone won most of them, they just sounded better.
Not only was that one of the best reasonings to get me to click the like button (because, yes, me nerdy on guitty, too) but inspired this comment (double stop video editing)...too late at night....
I'm a massive fan of V guitars, and have wanted a Gibson-style Flying V for years. Unfortunately, the only brands that MAKE that style are Gibson and Epiphone, now that Dean can't make them anymore (and Dean had some REAL nice ones too), and even then the options are super limited. It really sucks to be a fan of that style in 2024.
Reverend guitars are made of korina as well. No shortage there, either.
Ultimately we just grab a Chibson version if we are just after the shape, or have a company like IYV custom make one for you. For the Chibson you are out 300, for the custom from IYV you are out maybe 400 bucks, but get what you want.
Sure, in both cases you will need to change out some hardware, but in the later to get a custom without the Gibson logo... your own inlays etc... For less than a grand in either case, you have a decent guitar.
I find it funny (and I’m guilty of this too) that us guitar players will gladly pay $1000+ for an LTD but would never pay that for an Epiphone or a Squier.
LTD's around that price point are usually made in Indonesia or Korea and their QC control is more consistent than made in China Epiphones. You're almost always going to get a very high quality instrument when you invest 1k into LTD, where as it's still a hit or miss with Epiphone.
I don't think that's too unfair thing to say.
I have never understood why The Gibson Moderne has never been a main stay. They were designed along with the V and Explorer. I think they look fantastic, or am I the only one who thinks this?
I prefer the '67 V, but yeah, the options for Vs generally are few & far between. I'm thankful for the Epi Kirk Hammett V. Just got one for under $1,000 new, and I'm pretty darn happy with it, but it'd be nice if the only Gibson version wasn't a $14,000 road worn edition. Obviously the market for the V isn't the same as the market for the Les Paul, but it could still bear some more frequent issues in some interesting finishes
As a lefty player, good guitars are always difficult to find, but I never understood why a Gibson V was always extra hard to find as I figured the symmetrical shape meant it'd be easier to make... I'm shocked to learn that they aren't easy to come by for righties either.
I have a 58 Gibson flying V Korina.
It is unbranded and I bought it on the internet. Perfect workmanship.
I removed the Gibson logo off of the headstock. Other wise it is mint an unmolested. Let me know if you are interested.
Made in China.
Totally agree. I really want a Double Cut Special Les Paul but I can’t shed the Custom Shop money for one and used ones where I live are impossible to find at honest prices, because there’s no new Standard option!
It’s so stupid but I know Gibson doesn’t care because they could make a Greeny teapot and sell it for 4k and people would still buy it
Gibson makes wall ornaments while the working man can get a Chibson version for $200-$600 depending on how much you want done.
Growing up as an Albert King fan, the 58 shape is the only one I really love. Dean mad a fantastic copy with a split v headstock that got them sued immediately. Even those bring $4000+
Ive been a V player for roughly a decade now, but 1 little detail that annoys me to this day is why dont other guitar brands other than Gibson use Arrow tip headstocks on their v's anymore? Ive seen Schecter & Jackson's put em on the strat shaped bodys & even les paul shaped bodys but not vs. The "hockey stick" headstocks cool & all but when i think of the iconic v shape guitar, i also think of it with an arrow tip headstock.